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Colin Hexr

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22 March, 2017 08:50:30

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I've recently complained about the render distance affecting electrics and how they behave. Right now, makign a massive electrics-based adventure map, I realised just how broken the game is.

Basically, the bug is that when you go out of render distance and come back. you might only render half of the circuit and hence it won't behave as how you programmed the whole circuit to work. This huge bug is the sole cause of all grief on my map. All my electrics misbehaved when I flew around. rendered half of them, and the pistons amd what not activated on their own.

Which is an issue. Closed doors become open, one-time events trigger and break the map, pistons retract randomly. I wish I had known this earlier but now I have put in 10 hours into my map, with 30 minutes and mroe of gameplay, I have to stop working on it.

In my test run, I had secret doors already open, and things washed away by pistons opening prematurely and releasing their water. I didn't know this at all because when I get near the whole circuit loads in and the game quickly returns my pistons to thwir right state.

In short, Kaalus has complete effed the game over. It is completely impossible to get adventure maps to work with electrics.

I propose that the game remembers circuits as they are, no matter how they are rendered, until the circuit is disturbed or loaded wholly. I doubt Kaalus will ever read this anyway, but yeah. the game is broken. I can't fix it, and I've essentially given up trying to get it to work.

Here's a Beta I used to test my map. https://www.dropbox.com/s/criaip5k0gmqnmv/Run%20Jump%20Die%20A.scworld?dl=0

Additionally, thanks to this issue, my Pistom Parkour 2 also fails to work. That was on a small scale and easily fixed by replacing a part of the circuit. But on a large scale, you cannot keep track, and as you fly around, things you fix break again.

 
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Colin Hexr

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#1 [url]

22 March, 2017 08:53:25

Extra Note: My recording device is currently charging, but I'll definitely record a short video showcasing the issue in whole. This post will be edited later to include the video.

Player of the game for four years straight. Somehow an admin.

All of my maps - http://survivalcraft.lefora.com/topic/19407424?page=1#.WPtKc45ePBI

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Stanimus

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#2 [url]

22 March, 2017 16:20:18

Only 10 hours lost? You're lucky. I have dozens of hours in my huge Skyrim dungeon map and more in my Space Station. Looks like it's all wasted time...dammit!

One way around some of the problems such as open doors, is: instead of having the electrics open the doors, make it so they unlock them. They player would still have to press a button to open it but this way they don't just open on their own. The buttonnand AND gate need to be close to the door, so they activate with the door. This is a problem with the edge-triggered door - you can't directly control (or know) the state of the door. You can can only change it from whatever it is now. So, you still have to make sure of their initial state, but they won't just open or close on their own.

Sadly, pistons are even worse. With these we do directly control their state by the voltage. But that voltage goes crazy as you come within view distance and the piston acts insane.

I have this issue with speaking signs too - they speak as the voltage goes crazy and this is very confusing at best to the player. At worst, it gives clues to the solution of the puzzles they're connected to. I tried replacing signs with multistate furniture but they are like doors. You can change them but you have no clue what state they are currently in. No helpful solution.

I truly hope Kaalus recognizes this and proffers a solution. My biggest hopes for this game has been the electrics and adventure mode maps. They may end up being my biggest disappointment...

————————————————————
"[The future] is a place about 70 miles east of here - where it's lighter." - Laurie Anderson


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Colin Hexr

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22 March, 2017 16:45:52

@stan I think 10 hours is a lot of time for me. I get tired easily and it takes a lot of energy to be productive. Spending about 3 hours a day hammering at the map for days straight, wrangling with wires is tough.

For the unlocking part, yes, perhaps I could do that, but 90% of my map were using pistons because it's built like a maze; you have to find the next section that's hidden in the walls. And, yep, I've already complained that premature piston activation absolutely wrecks my map.

The signs were the worse. I had a sign connected and each time you fell and went back to the checkpoint the sign piped up, causing utter annoyance.

Yeah, adventure maps are HUGE on Minecraft, and that's basically a model of Survivalcraft. Kaalus losing out on the adventure mode side, even though he added so many creative features, is a huge loss.

Player of the game for four years straight. Somehow an admin.

All of my maps - http://survivalcraft.lefora.com/topic/19407424?page=1#.WPtKc45ePBI

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Stanimus

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#4 [url]

22 March, 2017 23:19:05

The disappointing things is that with electrics, pistons and furniture adventure maps could be so much better than anything they can do in MC. IF the kinks were worked out!

————————————————————
"[The future] is a place about 70 miles east of here - where it's lighter." - Laurie Anderson


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Colin Hexr

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#5 [url]

23 March, 2017 04:11:56

@Stan exactly, redstone seems so complicated and unapproachable but electrics actually looks like a logical puzzle that can be worked out slowly, and it's always fun when things work your way.

Player of the game for four years straight. Somehow an admin.

All of my maps - http://survivalcraft.lefora.com/topic/19407424?page=1#.WPtKc45ePBI

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Redstoner

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#6 [url]

8 June, 2017 16:54:16

I think I discovered exactly why you're having problems. I've been dealing with the same bug ever since I started playing years ago. Lefora forums are HUGE p.i.t.a. to make an account. It took me years and FINALLY I can now help out!

It's been months since I played so this might not be entirely accurate, but from all the testing I've done I discovered the simple root cause: logic components don't load properly. For example, say you have a NOT gate output is off (0). When you reload the chunk it's in, the NOT gate loads as on (1) for 1 game tick then updates to off (0) on the next tick. In layman's terms, logic components load in their default state and update on the next tick.

This explains a whole world of issues I don't even know where to begin. Once I redo the testing and get 100% confirmation, I'm going to post a bug report because this MAJOR bug has broken so many of my circuits. You've got to wonder how any great builds ever worked. Good luck to you and let's get this one fixed!

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Redstoner

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#7 [url]

8 June, 2017 17:13:27

P.S. How do you include images in a post? I've another bug that's been long overdue and they mostly fixed it with the recent updates, but it just popped up in a weird way as I was playing yesterday. I need screenshots to explain it well.

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Colin Hexr

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#8 [url]

9 June, 2017 06:01:13

Just look up 'image bbcode'on google and find the code, then get into the full reply editor and click source
There, paste the code in and it should work.

I doubt this'll get fixed. I've been dealing with many little issues since I started playing the game and they still persist even now.

Player of the game for four years straight. Somehow an admin.

All of my maps - http://survivalcraft.lefora.com/topic/19407424?page=1#.WPtKc45ePBI

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mgblitz81

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#9 [url]

9 June, 2017 14:43:33

If you have your circuits that are far away run into an AND gate before triggering while attaching a NOT gate to the other side a good distance further, maybe 10 to 20 blocks, it should prevent your circuits from automatically initiating as they come into range.

I'm not sure about half working circuits though. I've never had any problems. Though most of my work is within 120 blocks of the start point.

____________________________________________________________________________________
For a complete list of all my electric projects, videogames, and tutorials click on this link:
http://survivalcraft.lefora.com/topic/19405016/Electrical-Projects-Videogames-Tutorials-Showcase-Thread

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Colin Hexr

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#10 [url]

9 June, 2017 17:15:32

I can see what you mean with AND gates. I'm not sure how well they'll work though. It's a workaround more than anything and it's rather flimsy. I rather Kaalus actually address the issue instead of avoiding it.

Player of the game for four years straight. Somehow an admin.

All of my maps - http://survivalcraft.lefora.com/topic/19407424?page=1#.WPtKc45ePBI

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mgblitz81

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#11 [url]

9 June, 2017 19:00:00

Yes, it's absolutely a workaround, assuming it works the way I think it might. but it isn't too difficult to implement and could potentially save your map.

Probably best to try it out before getting too upset with kaalus about it. That's a weird one to tackle I'm sure. It makes sense to have circuits default to off when out of range to save game performance. What maybe should be done is that circuits will not turn on until ALL of a circuit is in range? I don't know.

If you want me to take a look at your map I'd be happy to. Just let me know what is supposed to happen and I'll do my best.

____________________________________________________________________________________
For a complete list of all my electric projects, videogames, and tutorials click on this link:
http://survivalcraft.lefora.com/topic/19405016/Electrical-Projects-Videogames-Tutorials-Showcase-Thread

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Colin Hexr

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#12 [url]

10 June, 2017 05:05:28

I was a little mad becauae I think I deleted my world, but apparently not. I'll try to fix it later,but I'm not super enthusiastic abour playing the game any more.

Player of the game for four years straight. Somehow an admin.

All of my maps - http://survivalcraft.lefora.com/topic/19407424?page=1#.WPtKc45ePBI

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Stanimus

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#13 [url]

10 June, 2017 16:40:08

I posted re this problem here: http://survivalcraft.lefora.com/topic/19406367/Speaking-sign-giveaways way back then.
The AND gate is not a complete solution, sadly. I've emailed Kaalus and posted on his blog (back then) and like nearly every other bug or glitch or undesirable 'feature', it falls on deaf ears...

Sometimes careful redesign can reduce this problem, other times a complete design overhaul is required and others there's just no way around it. Recently, I've picked back up my computer project and have made significant headway. The only way it will work is by keeping it all within sight distance and if the player never moves away from it. But my Skyrim dungeon still speaks the signs whenever you move out and back into range... (No pistons there, yet.)

————————————————————
"[The future] is a place about 70 miles east of here - where it's lighter." - Laurie Anderson


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Colin Hexr

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#14 [url]

10 June, 2017 16:58:32

Ywah the signs are especially annoying

Player of the game for four years straight. Somehow an admin.

All of my maps - http://survivalcraft.lefora.com/topic/19407424?page=1#.WPtKc45ePBI

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Stanimus

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#15 [url]

10 June, 2017 18:08:42

A little help

I'm not sure that this is a problem with only part of the circuit working as much as it is that the initial condition of all signals is '0'. That's why NOT gates always output '1' before being updated. However, the SR latch and memory bank store their outputs in the xml file. This fact may be used to some advantage to get around this problem. It isn't a panacea tho and still forces other design constraints.
If your pistons are controlled by an 'analog' signal, you can try putting a memory bank as a buffer immediately before them. To make a buffer, just feed the input to the low address and the output to the piston. Then program the bank's row0 with "0123456789ABCDEF". Now the output will be stored in the xml file. When it starts up, the output will be initially set to that value. Hopefully that's enough to do the trick for you...

————————————————————
"[The future] is a place about 70 miles east of here - where it's lighter." - Laurie Anderson


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Colin Hexr

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#16 [url]

11 June, 2017 03:19:07

I have very little clue as to what you just said.

I'm not a code savvy guy. At this point, when it starts getting too complicated, it's not fun to play the game any more for me, and that's when I call it quits. Thanks for the help though! I appreciate you trying to puzzle this out.

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Stanimus

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#17 [url]

14 June, 2017 15:34:05

OK, I'll try again for the non electricly inclined. Instead of connecting it to your piston, first connect it to a memory bank at its "1" input. Now connect the "O" output from the bank to the piston. Then open the editor for the bank. Select the first row. Put in the numbers like I said. Done.

And I 'play' the game several ways. When it gets "complicated", it just gets interesting to me...

————————————————————
"[The future] is a place about 70 miles east of here - where it's lighter." - Laurie Anderson


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